The interview between Alberici and then detective chief inspector Pamela Young,broadcast in April 2015 after the state coroner announced a third inquest into the 1988 death of US national Scott Johnson,has emerged as a key battleground in the inquiry into LGBTIQ hate crimes in Sydney.
Mick Willing (centre) has been pitted against Pamela Young (left) and Emma Alberici (right) during the LGBTIQ hate crimes inquiry in Sydney.Steven Siewert,Kate Geraghty
It has exposed a deep rift between Young and former senior police,including Willing,and pointed to a historical breakdown in the relationship between police and the Johnson family.
During the interview,Young told Alberici there was “still evidence” Johnson may have died by suicide and accused the former police minister of “kowtowing” to the Johnson family in 2013 in setting up a reinvestigation of Scott Johnson’s death. Young had overseen the reinvestigation.
Johnson’s killer,Scott Phillip White,was after pleading guilty to manslaughter over the 27-year-old’s death near a gay beat in Manly in 1988.
Within a day of theLateline interview,Willing – then Young’s boss as homicide squad commander – released a statement describing some of her comments as “inopportune” in light of the coroner’s decision to hold a fresh inquest. The coroner ultimately concluded Johnson met with foul play.
Scott Johnson (left) and his killer,Scott White.Supplied
Willing,who left the force last year,has told the inquiry he did not know Young would be interviewed in the studio by Alberici,as opposed to giving off-the-record background or bland “door-stop” comments outside the Coroners Court,and was shocked and angry when he heard her remarks.
Alberici gave evidence last week that she had several conversations with Willing about the proposed interview,a claim he said on Friday was “not true”.
She also said she met Willing for coffee in North Sydney in 2017,and he told her words to the effect of:“I wanted[Young] to do the interview so that the general public could see that we were not homophobic and not negligent and that the Johnson family were insufferable.”
“I did not say that,” Willing said. “I certainly did say that I felt sorry for Pam.” Young left the force later in 2015.
Senior counsel assisting the inquiry,Peter Gray,SC,asked Willing for his response to Alberici’s claim he had also said words to the effect of:“I thought that once it was public and the scandalous misdirection of investigation resources was exposed,the political pressure would stop. I had no idea the[police] commissioner would be as enraged as he was about the interview and Pam got the blame,unfortunately.”
“That’s absolute rubbish,” Willing said.
Young has given evidence Willing was aware of the plan for a studio interview,and had called her the morning after the interview and “said he thought it was good”.
On Friday,Willing said he could not recall saying the interview was good but did not deny it.
He also said Young “could have” told him in a phone call before the broadcast that if she was asked by Alberici she would be “tempted to use the word ‘kowtowing’ when describing the[former] police minister”.
“I can’t recall it,but she could have,” Willing said.
Gray put it to Willing that Young told him this because the interview with Alberici “was going to be on the record”.
“I don’t agree with that,” Willing said.
Later on Friday,Willing’s barrister,Murugan Thangaraj,SC,put to Young:“It would be totally inconceivable that you would say kowtowing in relation to a police minister on the record.”
“Well,I told him I was tempted to[say that] when I was interviewed,” Young said. She has claimed Willing laughed in response,and she interpreted this as encouragement.
“The way that discussion took place was that it was a joke. That’s why he laughed,” Thangaraj said.
“I don’t joke about the minister and his kowtowing,” Young said.
Asked if she knew she had crossed the line by using the word kowtowing,Young said she “knew it was controversial”.
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