‘We are not a separate entity,we are all just Australians’:Senator defends her opposition to the Voice

Columnist and author

The Country Liberal Party’s Jacinta Price,a Warlpiri woman,is the newly elected senator for the Northern Territory,and a prominent critic of many Indigenous initiatives,including the Voice. I spoke to her on Friday morning.

Fitz: Congratulations on your election as Senator for the Northern Territory. Given your new prominence,can you tell us a little of your background?

JP: I was born in Darwin and my parents were living on Melville Island,working as teachers. My mum’s Indigenous,and my dad’s an Anglo-Celtic man from Newcastle. My dreamings areYirrkipayi (crocodile) fromMillikapiti on the Tiwi Islands where my baby spirit comes from but my inherited dreamings from Warlpiri country areNgapa Jukurrpa (rain dreaming) andWarlu Jukurrpa (fire dreaming). I grew up in Alice Springs but my parents were quite nomadic,and we were always travelling around. By the time I was 13 we were in the midst of a world trip that my parents had saved up for,just the three of us,backpacking,and it really opened my eyes to how we’re all human,but it’s our cultures that dictate our world view.

Senator Jacinta Price taking part in a traditional ceremony,with her grandmother Tess Napaljarri Ross prior to delivering her first speech in the senate.

Senator Jacinta Price taking part in a traditional ceremony,with her grandmother Tess Napaljarri Ross prior to delivering her first speech in the senate.James Brickwood

Fitz: And what of your politicisation? Did you support the republic referendum?

JP: When did that take place?

Fitz: 1999.

JP: I really can’t remember. I probably wasn’t thinking about any of that at that stage because I was a teenage mother,with a little baby boy born when I was just 17. And I had two more babies in the next four years. It wasn’t a priority for me at that time.

The prime minister says future governments will be guided by an Indigenous Voice to Parliament.

Fitz: What did politicise you?

JP: After my parents finished being schoolteachers,they started a cross-cultural consultancy educating people across many different workplaces that was largely based on our family circumstances of having a white Australian father and Aboriginal mother,and how we navigated our lives. I looked at how traditional culture was,in different ways,playing out and making our lives not so good and contributing to the dysfunction. And I guess over the years watching politics unfold I’d see narratives about Indigenous Australians that I didn’t agree with,and my frustration grew with both the narrative and the way that government handled issues.

Fitz: You will recall that think tank debate at the Centre for Independent Studies in Macquarie Street where we met a few years ago. I spoke in favour of changing the date of Australia Day to a day when all Australians can celebrate,like an Independence Day,when we become a republic. You were resolute that Australia Day should remain on January 26,the day of white settlement,and be celebrated by all. My gob was smacked at the time,and still is. Can you say again why you support that position?

JP: Well,I wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for that white settlement. For me,it’s not about the impact of colonisation on us black fellas. It’s about how we’ve since come together as people from all different backgrounds. So many of us are of mixed race,and if that hadn’t occurred,we wouldn’t exist.

Fitz: But hang on,I did a DNA test for that showWho Do You Think You Are and they established that genealogically,I’m about as white as they come. But my ethnicity has nothing to do with my views. I can look at white settlement and acknowledge the obvious:it wasdevastating for Indigenous people. How can they be expected to celebrate and say “What a great day was the 26th of January 1788”? And how can the rest of us,knowing what happened?

JP: Well,I guess you can pick any day of the year where you’d find that something horrible happened on that day in terms of our nation’s history. And I’ll give you an example of my own family. In 1928,we experienced the last sanctioned massacre,the Coniston Station massacre. And my family were among 200 people killed by a police posse in that massacre. When we had the 75th anniversary,we invited the descendants of those who had done the shooting. And to me that is one of the greatest acts of reconciliation that I have ever experienced in this country.

PF: But is not the starting point of reconciliation,recognition of what has happened and how it has hurt Aboriginal people to this day? And isn’t it fair to say that you’ve attracted enormous attention for taking positions completely at odds with much of what much of the Indigenous community – and Indigenous supporters in wider Australia like my white self – have said:it’s time to recognise the shocking past,acknowledge the unequal present,and do everything possible to fix the future. You’ve been a very prominent voice howling us down.

JP: Yes. The reason why I think I’m in this position I’m in now is because that’s exactly the narrative that has been created,and put out there to suggest that the majority of Aboriginal people think and feel that particular way.Many of us appreciate celebrating Australia with all other Australians and don’t view ourselves as victims of our history on that day,but view ourselves as proud Australians. My whole goal throughout,is to show alternative narratives exist because I think it’s become a racial stereotype that Indigenous Australians are somehow homogenous. And as I said in my maiden speech,it’s far more dignified to be recognised by the content of our character as opposed to[our] heritage.

Fitz: I accept the sincerity of the positions you hold. Does it ever bother you,however,to look around you and see that among your supporters are people with little to no respect for the Aboriginal people? I cite particularly Pauline Hanson who devoted much of her ownmaiden speech to attacking Aboriginal people,and has been going hard ever since. Does it not bother you that she is the most vocal critic of First Nations people in the country,andon this very day,she cites you as proof she’s right?

JP: No. I look further and a bit deeper than what is on the surface. And look,I know Pauline can certainly come across as though she is racist. But I don’t think that she is. I think she cares deeply for Indigenous Australians,and that her concern is more about taking more practical approaches towards solving some of our problems. And it’s a pity that not more concerned Indigenous Australians don’t speak up about domestic violence,the child sexual abuse,alcoholism and all those things. They’re more concerned about how the wider public view them as opposed to actually solving some of these issues,so they remain silent.

Fitz: We’re all appalled by the things that you cite,but the Uluru Statement from the Heart that you decry makes two key points in this field:“Proportionally,we are the most incarcerated people on the planet,[but] we are not an innately criminal people.” Who can dispute that a huge part of what has created this shocking situation,has been shocking white laws? Isn’t it obvious that if there had been a Voice,guaranteeing Indigenous input,those laws would likely have been less appalling? So having a Voice now,will give guidance on how to fix things?

JP: Well,I think that’s the narrative and that’s the Kool-Aid that a lot of Australians have been drinking. Yes,colonisation and subsequent laws had a lot to do with some of the critical issues. I’m not denying that. But I know full well,that another part of it is we accept violence within our culture. It’s a patriarchal culture and[it has to be held accountable]. Meantime,the Voice to parliament like this one,it doesn’t actually detail how it’s supposed to help. It feels like just another bureaucracy. We’ve had that much bureaucracy over our lives in Australia. I believe it’s the wrong direction to go. Why enshrine it in the Constitution?

Fitz: Simply because,as the Liberal parliamentarian Fred Chaney said,“Aboriginal people want to be consulted on things that affect Aboriginal people.” You are the exemplar that not all do want that,but most do,and the polls show most of the rest of us want that to happen to. And you enshrine it in the Constitution so that a future government in the thrall of talkback andSky After Dark,can’t easily dismantle it.

JP: I don’t agree with it. I think the reason why we have failed so much is because we’re always being regarded differently to the rest of our country,as a separate entity. And I can’t support this idea,especially when,as my DNA tells me,I’m notjust an Indigenous person either. We are all just Australian citizens,and we should be treated as such.

Fitz: You say you want more practical measures,and are critical of Northern Territory scrapping mandatory alcohol bans in remote communities. But Karina Okotel wrote a terrific piece in theHerald a couple of months ago,pointing out that if the Northern Territory had a Voice,there could be a strongcounter-weight against such moves.

JP: There are already a lot of voices saying don’t do it. But the government doesn’t have to take that advice. Why should the Voice be any different?

Fitz: Because,ideally,enshrined in the Constitution,it will bethe Voice that all of us will look to,the one that has most influence. If properly constituted it would be a great force for wise policy.

JP: But if enshrined in our Constitution it suggests we will forever be victims. I would prefer that it be understood that we have to stand on our own two bloody feet without having a mechanism like this. So we might get to a point where it’s legislated,but not constitutionally enshrined.

Fitz: In your many public utterances,you make out that this is a Labor push,but the wonderful thing is that it has received such bipartisan support. And your own shadow minister for Indigenous affairs,Julian Leeser,co-chaired the parliamentary committee with Pat Dodson which said the Voice was the best way forward.

JP: Yes,but we still haven’t seen the detail. How can we vote for something when we don’t know what it looks like?

Fitz: I broadly agree with you on that. But both Linda Burney and the prime minister have made it clear that there will be a lot more detail forthcoming before we vote.

JP: It is needed.

Fitz: In your maiden speech,you said the Voice will drive a wedge between us all. Can I put it to you that right now,there’s less of a wedge between black and white Australia than ever before? With a progressive mood sweeping the land,we’re far more unified now than we’ve ever been in our history,and the most prominent wedge,I respectfully submit,Senator,is people like you and your supporters?

JP: I don’t accept that. How is having a bureaucracy based on race placed into the Constitution,not driving a wedge? That peddles racial stereotypes of Indigenous Australians being an homogenous separate entity,and we’re not. They can call me a “coconut” –[black on the outside,white on the inside] – or an “Uncle Tom” because I’m expressing my views,but I don’t care. I’m an individual in my own right,with Indigenous heritage,but I am first and foremost an Australian,and have no desire for the Constitution to treat me differently.

Fitz: Are you ever hurt and wounded by such slurs?

JP: I’m disappointed. But I’m also acutely aware of the fact that there are vulnerable people who are far worse off than me who have been hurt far more than I have and who need someone like me to stand up and to take the bullet and to take the hit and to remain firm for their benefit. So people can come at me all they want. I still don’t see why we need a Voice.

Fitz: Surely because 250 years of white settlement shows that in terms of Indigenous people,we’ve botched it,we’ve buggered it up. So it’s time to embrace an alternative way,where legislatorslisten to the Voice of Indigenous people.

JP: So you put in a bureaucracy. That’s not going to work.

Jacinta Price with her mother,Bess,a former Northern Territory government minister.

Jacinta Price with her mother,Bess,a former Northern Territory government minister.Jeff Tan

Fitz: Honestly,in the silent watch of the night,staring at the cracks in the ceiling,as we all do,do you ever have doubts? Do you never think that,in the seriously prominent and powerful position you have,you are misusing the platform you have and are actually hurting Indigenous causes? Are you absolutelysurethat you’re saying and doing the right thing?

JP: (Five second pause.) Yes. I don’t have any doubt about what I’m trying to achieve,the BandAid I’m trying to rip off. The truth is what I’m trying to unveil,and I have no doubt whatsoever.

Fitz: Thanks.

Joke of the week

Q: What do you get when you cross a pit bull with Lassie?

A: A dog who’ll bite your arm off and then run for help.

Tweet of the week

Quote of the week

“I haven’t seen anything published or presented at any committee that suggests that John Barilaro did anything other than apply for the job as a private citizen and be selected on his merit.”Stuart Ayres on Monday. He resigned two days later.

What they said

“Last night,I read a section of the independent review being conducted by Graeme Head. This section is relevant to my role as minister. In my view,no such breach has occurred. However,I agree it is important that this matter is investigated appropriately and support the premier’s decision to do so.”Stuart Ayres on Wednesday as he resigned from the cabinet.

“It’s completely bizarre that I need to dress up like a businessman when this place is supposed to represent all Australians. I stood up to talk about the housing crisis and the Libs wanted to talk about my tie.”The Honourable Member for Griffith,Max Chandler-Mather,a Green,after successfully appealing to the speaker,Milton Dick,to allow him to be in the House of Representatives tieless,despite the protests of the Coalition.

“Justice has been delivered. This terrorist leader is no more. People around the world no longer need to fear this vicious and determined killer.” US President Joe Biden announcing the death of theAl-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri in a US drone strike.

“I find it appalling that they’re using human tragedy of the floods to renege on an agreement.”Peter V’landys,the powerful chair of the Australian Rugby League Commission,after Premier Dominic Perrottet on Tuesday evening told the NRL he would not commit to a timeframe for investment and would prioritise funding for flood reconstruction. Thenerve of the NSW government,putting flood victims ahead of suburban football stadiums!

“The government has just received the floods inquiry report,which will likely require a significant cost to the taxpayer,and I note right now there are still 1366 people without a home in NSW due to flooding. It should come as no surprise that my top priority is therefore supporting those devastated by the major floods across NSW.”Premier Dominic Perrottet on the situation.

“When we have a negative Indian Ocean dipole in place,typically southern and south-eastern inland Australia have a high chance of seeing above-average rain,and most other areas of central,eastern and southern Australia are also more likely to be wet. One thing that a lot of people are concerned about with this IOD declared is that Sydney just had a record wet year to date.”Ben Domensino,a meteorologist with Weatherzone,said the event increased the likelihood of above-average rain over parts of Australia for the next three to four months.

“I sovereign,Lidia Thorpe,do solemnly and sincerely swear that I will be faithful and I bear true allegiance to the colonising Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.”Indigenous Senator Lidia Thorpe making her oath of allegiance in parliament. She was told to repeat the oath correctly. which she did. Thorpe,a Greens senator for Victoria,was chided by her parliamentary colleagues,one of whom yelled,“You’re not a senator if you don’t do it properly.”

Deputy Leader of the Australian Greens in the Senate,Senator Lidia Thorpe,approaches the table to be sworn-in,in the Senate at Parliament House in Canberra.

Deputy Leader of the Australian Greens in the Senate,Senator Lidia Thorpe,approaches the table to be sworn-in,in the Senate at Parliament House in Canberra.Alex Ellinghausen

“He took the words we could not speak and he turned them into song so that our voices could be heard.”Ian Hamm,stolen generations survivor rememberingArchie Roach.

“If we can be just a little bit more like Archie,then Australia is going to be the kinder,more resilient place,more emotionally mature country,that we want it to be.”Deborah Cheetam,opera singer and composer,remembering Archie Roach.

Twitter:@Peter_Fitz

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Peter FitzSimons is a journalist and columnist with The Sydney Morning Herald.

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