‘Bigger fish to fry’:Jim Chalmers on bracelets,booze,Keating and tax cuts

Columnist and author

Jim Chalmers,44,is the federal treasurer. I spoke with him on Thursday afternoon.

Fitz: Treasurer...

JC: Peter,I’m sorry I’m late. One thing that threw my day out was coming out of the memorial service for the Queen. Paul Keating took me by the elbow and what was meant to be two minutes with me turned into a very valuable and enjoyable hour!

A word in your ear:Jim Chalmers (right) with former treasurer and prime minister Paul Keating in August.

A word in your ear:Jim Chalmers (right) with former treasurer and prime minister Paul Keating in August.Jeremy Piper

Fitz: Speaking of whom,your PhD two decades ago at ANU in political science was titled “Brawler statesman:Paul Keating and prime ministerial leadership in Australia...?”

JC: I wrote about the power of the prime ministership and I use Paul as the focus because he was the reason I was interested in politics in the first place. Paul once told Kerry O’Brien that when he was a kid,he saw Winston Churchill and said,“If that’s the game that Churchill is in,that’s the game I want to be in.” And when I was a kid,I saw Paul Keating and reached the same conclusion. He was a kid from a fibro suburb,with a fascinating turn of phrase and the right kind of chip on his shoulder. And I thought,“If someone like Paul can go okay in politics,then politics is for me too”. And now I speak to him really frequently on the phone and go and see him a bit. I would have spoken to him probably three or four times in the last fortnight. I seek his advice,and I’m grateful for it.

Fitz: When Keating was treasurer,he brought in very brave economic reforms that transformed the country. Do you have some of your own coming you haven’t shared with us yet?

JC: I think our equivalent is climate change. The economic reform elements of action on climate change and the purely environmental aspects are now inseparable. The biggest opportunity that Australia has economically is in the transition to cleaner sources of energy. It will be a game changer for our economy,and will get business costs down. It will create export industries;and turbocharge some of the areas of traditional economic strength.

Fitz: You also worked under Wayne Swan as treasurer. What did you learn from him?

JC: His remarkable ability to push through and persevere. His work ethic was unbelievable,his calm,and his ability to play a long game was pretty remarkable. And he’s the other one that I speak to regularly.

Fitz: And Wayne was there with Julia Gillard at your wedding in 2013,two days after the 2013 ALP leadership spill,and they convened a council of war in a private room at your reception to form a new ministry. Was that a bit odd,to have a new government being formed,effectively while you were toasting the bridesmaids?

JC: In hindsight,yeah. At the time,it seemed like a normal wedding though,with some pretty high-profile guests...

Chalmers with Wayne Swan during the election campaign in April.

Chalmers with Wayne Swan during the election campaign in April.Alex Ellinghausen

Fitz: Later that year,you get elected to parliament. Now,as a newly married man,who’d already seen up-close the cost of political life to many parliamentarians,did you hesitate before throwing yourself into politics?

JC: I didn’t because I’d seen its possibilities,and it was something that I had been working towards for a really long time. And back then,it wasn’t fully apparent to me what it would be like to say goodbye to my wife and kids and leave home on a Sunday afternoon to come to parliament,until I was in that position.

Fitz: And what is it like?

JC: (Softly). It’s the only downside of politics. It’s the only thing that makes you think about whether you’re doing the right thing;whether it’s worth it.

Fitz: In 2019,after Bill Shorten was defeated,you were shaping to stand against Albo,before withdrawing. Can we presume you simply didn’t have the numbers or did you “take one for the team”,preferring unanimity to a brawl?

JC: Well,for one thing our youngest was about five months old,and it was a choice between being away three or four nights a week as shadow treasurer,or being out seven nights a week as leader. It would have been a contest,but you only want to take part in that kind of contest if you’re sure of it. And I had my doubts. Most importantly of all,I thought Anthony would be a good leader and a good prime minister. I think the party got it right. We chose someone who’s obviously going to be a really good prime minister,and I’m hoping to be a really good treasurer in his government.

Fitz: No Kirribilli agreement?

JC: (Laughing.) No!

Fitz: Are you and Albo mates?

JC: Yep. I think like any political friendship or political partnership,it has good days and bad days. But for quite a while now it’s been good days. And I’ve known him now for almost 20 years. When I was knocking around the parliament in other roles,I spent a fair bit of time with him. I liked his company. Obviously,when you’re having a think about whether or not to run for the leadership,that probably puts a strain on things,but for a really long time now it’s been absolutely terrific. And I’m proud of him.

Fitz: You and I had a chat a few years ago about the virtues of totally giving up grog. How’s it going?

JC: It’s going well,and it’s been two years since I had a drop of alcohol. I read that chapter in your book – on you giving up alcohol – six or eight times now,and that was pretty decisive advice for me.

Fitz: Do you miss it?

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and Jim Chalmers before the election.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and Jim Chalmers before the election.Alex Ellinghausen

JC: Not like I thought I would. I mean,I started drinking in my mid-teens and for the next 25-plus years I gave it a really good nudge. I feel like I fit a lifetime of normal consumption into a shorter period. And so for me,it made a lot of sense to give it away.

Fitz: Was it a revelation for you as it was for me that abstinence is 10 times easier than moderation?

JC: Totally. I’ve tried before to say “no beers on a school night” or “one or two at a wedding”,that kind of stuff. That doesn’t work for me. Abstinence works.

Fitz: So you’re in good shape. What kind of shape are we in as a nation economically?

JC: We’ve got some things going for us. We’ve got low unemployment,and we’re getting a good price for the stuff we sell to the world,though that’s come off a fair bit. But we’re in for a really tough period – we don’t know how long that will last. We’ve got inflation through the roof,people’s real wages going backwards,their interest rates going up. The global economy is a pretty dangerous place right now. And so,we’ve got our fair share of challenges right now. I’m pretty confident and optimistic about the future,but we’ve got to navigate some pretty tricky terrain in the interim.

Fitz: The common complaint is interest rates going up. Do you have a firm view as to when they will level off and even come back down?

JC: I try not to speculate about that. But the Reserve Bank themselves have said that they think there’ll be a bit more when it comes to interest rate rises ... but then it will level off.

Fitz: Alright,the Albanese government has had an extended honeymoon,but you have faced a bit of criticism over persisting with the Morrison government’s stage three tax cuts,which will cut $243 billion from your revenue over the next decade.George Gear,Paul Keating’s assistant treasurer back in the day,has been withering,saying the ALP only ever committed to it “because it was forced on them by an opponent who had no vision for the future. Just a lot of pork-barrelling and a scare campaign.” Why have you persisted as a Labor government with those generous tax cuts,which mostly benefit the wealthy?

JC: Well,because we committed to them when they were part of a whole package for the parliament,and we had to decide whether to vote the whole package or not at all. And the whole package had some pretty substantial tax relief for people on modest incomes. And I think it’s important to remember as well that there’s still three budgets between now and when those tax cuts come in,and we’ve got some bigger fish to fry – inflation,issues in the supply chains etc – in the near term and immediate term.

Fitz: But they do help the wealthy. Thepoint’s been made in the Herald that “the highest income bracket of over $180,000 will suck $117 billion out of the budget in tax cuts over the next decade,or 48 per cent of the total tax cut package. The $45,001 to $60,000 bracket will only get $2.7 billion,or 1 per cent of the tax cuts.” Why persist?

JC: As before,they’re a couple of years away,and we’ve got bigger fish to fry in the interim.

Fitz: That sounds to me like sanity might prevail,and it’s not a good idea to put the sheep station on those stage three tax cuts going through?

JC: They’re already through,already legislated and a couple of years away still.

Fitz: Meantime,one of my colleagues noted you wear curious bracelets. Feel free to say “none of your damn business”,but was it a gift or do you just like it?

JC: Four arenadachadis,which are gifts from my local Indian temple. They’re blessed by the swami and I wear them because they’re a reminder of all the different community groups in my electorate. Another is from my daughter Annabel because she likes seeing me on TV with one of her hairbands around my wrist,or something she’s made for me. Currently,I have a dark pink hairband of hers on.

Fitz:Thank you for your time. I’ll let you get back to Annabel and your family.

Joke Of The Week

Q:How many telemarketers does it take to change a light bulb?

A:Only one,but he has to do it while you are eating dinner.

Quote of the week

“Send Putin to the trenches!” and “Let our children live!” –Protesters in Moscow reacting to the news that Putin is calling up 300,000 reservists to fight in the war in Ukraine. Many of the protesters were dragged away by riot police.

Tweet of the week

What they said

“If the government gives me prima facie evidence that they are classified documents,and you don’t advance any claim of declassification,I’m left with a prima facie case of classified documents,and as far as I’m concerned,that’s the end of it.” –Judge Raymond Dearie,the “special master,” appointed in the Trump case to determine the nature of the documents seized in the Mar-a-Lago raid,gives the bad news to Trump’s lawyers on Tuesday.

“Hard to identify,maybe minor royals ... I can’t identify them.” –Channel Nine’s Peter Overton,with co-host Tracy Grimshaw,as a blonde woman and her partner alighted from a black car for the Queen’s funeral. It turned out to be the newly installed British PM Liz Truss,with her husband. Happens to the best of ’em!

“We were relying on a video feed for live stream of arrivals. At times the video would freeze so we’d turn around to try to catch a glimpse. I do know what British PM Liz Truss looks like. The back of her hat,not so much!” –Overton,on how the error occurred.

“The fact is this government doesn’t see their role as providing basic services for the people of this state. For a short-term sugar hit to the budget,they sold the public out,and they’ve trapped us into restrictive contracts that will take years for future governments to unpick.” – Greens MP and chair of the NSW Legislative Council committee looking at public transport,Abigail Boyd,saying the state government’s move to privatise the city’s patchwork of bus networks had led to a degradation of services.

“In loving and devoted memory,Charles R.” –King Charles’card on the flowers on the coffin on its way to the funeral of Queen Elizabeth.

“This is a time of respect for Queen Elizabeth. It’s not a time,in my view ... for those discussions to take place in any detail. Of course people have different views about our constitutional system. And that’s fine. But as the prime minister,I have a responsibility to use this time to express my respect for Queen Elizabeth and express the extraordinary responsibility King Charles has.” –Anthony Albanese,asked if he discussed a possible republic with the King.

“To prevent possible monkeypox infection and as part of our healthy lifestyle,it is recommended that you do not have direct skin-to-skin contact with foreigners.” –Wu Zunyou,the chief epidemiologist at the China Centre for Disease Control and Prevention.

“I joined NSW government from the private sector in 2013 because I am passionate about improving the lives of all people of this state and because I wanted to serve the communities of NSW with this phase of my career. I look forward to reconnecting with you all in due course.” –Amy Brown,the former Investment NSW boss who controversially appointed John Barilaro to a plum trade job in New York,announcing her departure from her role.

“They’re evil. There are so many beautiful marine animals caught in them. One of the saddest things I’ve ever seen was a baby dolphin who had drowned in one. It had scratches all over it from its mother trying to free it.” – Famous diverValerie Taylor,speaking out against shark nets.

Twitter:@Peter_Fitz

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Peter FitzSimons is a journalist and columnist with The Sydney Morning Herald.

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